Legislature(1999 - 2000)

02/15/2000 01:45 PM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
HOUSE BILL NO. 230                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     An Act  granting certain  dispatchers in police  or fire                                                                   
     departments  or for the state  troopers status  as peace                                                                   
     officers under the public  employees' retirement system;                                                                   
     and providing for an effective date.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative J.  Davies MOVED that work  draft #1-LS0958\H,                                                                   
Cramer, 2/15/00, be the version  before the Committee.  There                                                                   
being NO OBJECTION, the work draft was adopted.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT stated  that HB 230 will require all                                                                   
dispatchers  under  the Public  Employees  Retirement  System                                                                   
(PERS), who elect to change from  a thirty year retirement to                                                                   
a  twenty  year retirement,  to  pay  the employees  and  the                                                                   
employers  contribution  of the  costs  of that  twenty  year                                                                   
retirement conversion.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kott   noted  that  approximately   263  PERS                                                                   
employees would  be affected by  the legislation and  of that                                                                   
number, approximately  65 are state  employees.  The  cost to                                                                   
each  employee   for  the  employee  contribution   would  be                                                                   
approximately  $450 dollars  per  year of  service under  the                                                                   
PERS system.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kott advised that  would be  a total  cost of                                                                   
approximately  $900 dollars  per  year for  years of  service                                                                   
under  the  PERS system  for  each  employee that  elects  to                                                                   
change  his or  her  retirement terms.    Under the  proposed                                                                   
legislation, there  would be no cost to the  employer and the                                                                   
employee would pay  all costs when they voluntarily  elect to                                                                   
make the change in their retirement system.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kott noted that  dispatchers are  in training                                                                   
for  a year,  which, he  pointed  out was  a major  financial                                                                   
commitment. He  believed that training would  help to prevent                                                                   
burnout and retain  personnel. There is zero  cost associated                                                                   
with the legislation  and participants would be  able opt for                                                                   
a longer period than the 20 years.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Therriault pointed  out  that  the original  fiscal                                                                   
note  accompanying  the  bill   had  been  indeterminate.  He                                                                   
explained  that in  the original  legislation,  there was  an                                                                   
unknown  cost,   whereas,  the  language  contained   in  the                                                                   
committee substitute changed that status.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative G. Davis asked  if a person had worked for ten                                                                   
years and then  decided to work for a total  of twenty years,                                                                   
would  they then  be able  to  begin payments  at that  time.                                                                   
Representative Kott explained  that the bill does not provide                                                                   
for  that  option.   He  pointed  out  that in  the  previous                                                                   
version of  the bill, the employee  would be required  to buy                                                                   
it up  front.  He added,  in the proposed legislation,  there                                                                   
exists an  unknown quantity, which  would be fairly  close to                                                                   
how much that person would be  responsible to pay for the 20-                                                                   
year period. He  suggested that the employee  could set aside                                                                   
money on a monthly basis in order to make a bulk payment.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault did not believe  that it would be good to                                                                   
place  an  employee into  a  situation  where they  would  be                                                                   
responsible  for   making  an  additional   contribution.  He                                                                   
suggested that the best way to  address this would be for the                                                                   
employee  to  have  the  option   to  either  increase  their                                                                   
deferred  compensation to  set  money aside  or establish  an                                                                   
annuity to  make contributions.   The Division  of Retirement                                                                   
and  Benefits   could  help   those  employees  determine   a                                                                   
realistic number to target at the end of the 20 years.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
KAREN  CHILDERS,  COMMUNICATION   SUPERVISOR,  JUNEAU  POLICE                                                                   
DEPARTMENT, JUNEAU, stated that  public safety dispatching is                                                                   
like  no  other  job.    The   nature  of  the  job  requires                                                                   
technical,  communication,  multitasking   and  interpersonal                                                                   
skills.     What separates  the  job from  others  is that  a                                                                   
dispatcher must have the ability  to disengage their emotions                                                                   
in order  to do  what needs  to be  done.   She advised  that                                                                   
dispatchers deal  with the worst  of life's realities.   They                                                                   
talk  with  people  that  are   angry,  scared,  intoxicated,                                                                   
suicidal,  mentally ill,  victims  of domestic  violence  and                                                                   
child abuse.   She stated  that true dispatchers  are capable                                                                   
of doing the job because it satisfies  something inside them.                                                                   
They do it for reasons that are difficult to understand.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Childers concluded that with  HB 230, the State of Alaska                                                                   
would have  the opportunity to  do the just and  equal thing.                                                                   
Not to discount dispatchers as  clerical help, but instead to                                                                   
recognize  dispatchers as  in integral  member of the  public                                                                   
safety and  law enforcement team.   She urged passage  of the                                                                   
legislation, noting  that Alaska  now has the  opportunity to                                                                   
show their support for these front-line workers.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DELL  SMITH,   DEPUTY  COMMISSIONER,  DEPARTMENT   OF  PUBLIC                                                                   
SAFETY, commented that he has  supervised dispatchers for the                                                                   
past 30  years.  He  emphasized that  it is a very  stressful                                                                   
job.   The  opportunity to  get out  of a  stressful job  and                                                                   
maintain  a  good  attitude  is  extremely  important.    The                                                                   
proposed legislation  provides an  opportunity to  retain and                                                                   
keep good dispatchers who can  see "a light at the end of the                                                                   
tunnel".    Mr.  Smith  reiterated how  important  it  is  to                                                                   
maintain and keep good dispatchers.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Smith pointed out that the  Alaska Association Chief's of                                                                   
Police strongly supports this legislation.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
GUY  BELL, DIRECTOR,  DIVISION  OF RETIREMENT  AND  BENEFITS,                                                                   
DEPARTMENT OF  ADMINISTRATION, in response  to Representative                                                                   
Foster,  explained  that  the  retirement  determination  was                                                                   
based  on  your  three  to five  high  year  average  salary,                                                                   
multiplied by the number of years  worked.  He explained that                                                                   
the multiplier  for the first ten  years is 2% per  year.  As                                                                   
the bill  is written, the  PERS other benefit  applies, which                                                                   
only would  go to the Peace  Officers service, not  the Peace                                                                   
Officer  benefit.    After 20  years,  a  persons  retirement                                                                   
benefit  would be  42.5%, 20%  for  the first  ten years  and                                                                   
22.5% for  the second  ten years  equaling the final  average                                                                   
salary and  including the actuarial  adjustment for  the cost                                                                   
of the benefit.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bell continued  that another portion of  the question was                                                                   
"Is one worth more  than the other".  The answer  is yes, one                                                                   
does cost  more than the other.   The additional 10  years of                                                                   
benefits has  a net present cost  of a lot more  than waiting                                                                   
until 30  years.  He  did not know if  it would be  a livable                                                                   
income.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault  noted that  there were age  restrictions                                                                   
on the 30 year retirement plan,  whereas, on the 20 year plan                                                                   
there  were none.   Mr.  Bell noted  that the  Tier I  normal                                                                   
retirement age  is 55 years old,  whether or not, there  is a                                                                   
20 or 30 year retirement.  Many  Peace Officers get to retire                                                                   
before  that  age.   Another  consideration  is  the  medical                                                                   
benefit liability which applies  to the Tier I employees that                                                                   
were hired before July 1, 1986.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Mulder asked  if  people could  receive  retirement                                                                   
with pay  before 55  years old.  Mr. Bell  replied that  they                                                                   
could if.   He stated  that if you  were a Peace  Officer and                                                                   
had 20 years  of service, you could take a  normal retirement                                                                   
benefit.  If you  are a PERS "other" you would  work 30 years                                                                   
before you could take a normal  retirement benefit.  Co-Chair                                                                   
Mulder clarified that a regular  state employee would have to                                                                   
wait until the age 55 or work for 30 years.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Austerman advised  that there is more than the                                                                   
dollar amount  being considered.   He spoke to the  amount of                                                                   
stress related to this work.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Bell  noted that  the  Department  had  not yet  had  an                                                                   
opportunity  to  prepare  a  fiscal  note  to  accompany  the                                                                   
current work draft  version before the Committee.   He stated                                                                   
that the  Department will show  a zero fiscal note  with this                                                                   
legislation at this time.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative G.  Davis noted that HB 159  had been included                                                                   
with member's  packets for review.   He commented that  it is                                                                   
similar to HB 230  and that there would be no  costs incurred                                                                   
to the State or the municipalities.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
(TAPE CHANGE, HFC 00 - 33, Side 2).                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative G.  Davis stated that the  mechanism contained                                                                   
in HB  159 speaks  to the  same stress  level featured  in HB
230.  He invited  Committee members to consider HB  159 as an                                                                   
amendment to roll into HB 236.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault  noted that he  had intended that  HB 159                                                                   
be heard at  the Committee meeting but because  of scheduling                                                                   
complications, it  had not been listed.  He  pointed out that                                                                   
HB 159  has a  $375 thousand  dollar fiscal  note.   He noted                                                                   
that he was not aware of the employee  turnover and "burnout"                                                                   
as exists in HB 230.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  G. Davis noted  that he had  not had  time to                                                                   
work on the concept of an amendment for HB 159.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Austerman  spoke  in   support  of   HB  236                                                                   
acknowledging the stress associated with that work.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  G. Davis  asked that  the Committee  consider                                                                   
holding the bill until an amendment could be formalized.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Chair Therriault inquired regarding the fiscal for HB 159.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bell  stated that if  HB 159 was  included in HB  230, it                                                                   
would have  a similar  non-fiscal impact.   Effectively,  the                                                                   
burden would be  carried totally by the employees.   Co-Chair                                                                   
Therriault  stated that  he had  not heard  that there  was a                                                                   
problem with the rate of turnover  as associated with HB 230.                                                                   
He noted  that he  supported HB  230 because  of the  problem                                                                   
with retention of those employees.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Austerman spoke  against holding  HB 159  for                                                                   
further consolidation of the two  bills.  Co-Chair Therriault                                                                   
agreed.   He added that the  Committee would need to  hold HB
230 while waiting  for the revised fiscal note,  however that                                                                   
should not take too long.  He  suggested that HB 159 could be                                                                   
added as  a possible floor  amendment if Representative  Kott                                                                   
would support that consideration.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Foster MOVED to  report CS HB 230 (FIN) out of                                                                   
Committee  with  individual  recommendations   and  with  the                                                                   
accompanying fiscal  note.  Representative J.  Davies pointed                                                                   
out that  at this time,  there is no  fiscal note.   Co-Chair                                                                   
Therriault commented that the  bill could be moved, expecting                                                                   
the zero fiscal note to come forthright to Committee.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Williams interjected  that he believed that HB
159 would  fit into HB 230.   Co-Chair Therriault  noted that                                                                   
he would schedule the HB 159 for  the House Finance Committee                                                                   
calendar next  week. Representative Williams  reiterated that                                                                   
HB 159 could be amended to fit into HB 230.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder  suggested that incorporating HB  159 into HB
230 would slow the passage of HB 230.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  J.  Davies OBJECTED  to  moving  HB 230  from                                                                   
Committee and then  waiting for the fiscal note.   He advised                                                                   
that he objected to that procedural  process.  He recommended                                                                   
moving the bill when the fiscal note arrives.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder agreed  that in most situations  the bill and                                                                   
fiscal  note should  be moved  together whenever  there is  a                                                                   
substantive change,  however, he  noted that there  have been                                                                   
no  important  changes to  this  bill.   The  Department  has                                                                   
informed  the Committee  that  the fiscal  note  will be  net                                                                   
zero.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies WITHDREW his OBJECTION.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
There being NO  further OBJECTION, it was so  ordered and the                                                                   
bill passed from Committee.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CS HB  236 (FIN)  was reported  out of  Committee with  a "do                                                                   
pass"  recommendation and  with  a zero  fiscal  note by  the                                                                   
Department of Administration.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                

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